Help
Hi you all. I hope anybody can help me. My K2600X is loosing his relative pitch (up and down). It looks like the pitch-wheel has some strange effect on the pitch of the instrument. This happened since one week, several hard-resets had no effekt. Never before I noticed that on the Concert Piano 1 its possible to change the pitch with the pitch-wheel. Also pressing the aftetouch changes a few percent of the pitch. When I go to the Midi-Util page I can see that the pitch-wheel keeps generating pitch bend events.
It looks like there is some mess going on with the pitch-wheel. I hope somebody can tell me that there is an easy solution for this problem. I am really afraid of hearing that I have to find a service point for fixing the problem. By the way I am living in Germany.
Regards Matches
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Help needed - K2600X loosing the pitch
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#2
The Puppeteer 
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Posted 25 February 2003 - 03:25 PM
The pitch-wheel is supposed to change the pitch, though when it recentres it should return to normal.
If this doesn't happen, then the pitch wheel may need to be recalibrated.
Also the ribbons, by default, are assigned to pitch bend, so be sure that you are not also using these.
To turn these off you will need to edit your setup and assign the pitch wheel and ribbons to different controllers.
In the program editor, the pitch wheel can be disabled by going to the common page and setting the pitch bend parameter to 0 ct. I think there is also a parameter on the layers page to turn off the pitch wheel, for each layer - but I could be wrong.
To disable the aftertouch, go to the Pitch page of the program and make sure that Src1, Src2 and DptCtl are set to Off, and check that the Coarse parameter is set to 0 ST (or 12, -12 etc.) You will need to do this for each layer of the program.
This should solve all of your pitch bending problems.
If this doesn't happen, then the pitch wheel may need to be recalibrated.
Also the ribbons, by default, are assigned to pitch bend, so be sure that you are not also using these.
To turn these off you will need to edit your setup and assign the pitch wheel and ribbons to different controllers.
In the program editor, the pitch wheel can be disabled by going to the common page and setting the pitch bend parameter to 0 ct. I think there is also a parameter on the layers page to turn off the pitch wheel, for each layer - but I could be wrong.
To disable the aftertouch, go to the Pitch page of the program and make sure that Src1, Src2 and DptCtl are set to Off, and check that the Coarse parameter is set to 0 ST (or 12, -12 etc.) You will need to do this for each layer of the program.
This should solve all of your pitch bending problems.
#3 Guest_Matches_*
Posted 26 February 2003 - 01:10 AM
Thank you very much for your help! I will try it later when I´m in front of my Keyboard. Just a quick question to the pitch-bend: After a hard reset all values of all programs are back to the factory settings, right? So the pitch-bend should not have any effect on the concert piano 1, or is my mind kidding me?
Thanx in advance
Matches
Thanx in advance
Matches
#4
The Puppeteer
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Posted 26 February 2003 - 03:43 PM
No. Pitch bend is active by default. Most synths have pitch bend wheels (or sticks) and are usually hard wired to alter the pitch when it is moved.
The Kurz is pretty unique in that you can change this assignment and use the pitch bend to control anything you like, but by default it is set to control the pitch.
Doing a hard reset will return the piano program to it's normal state, where the pitch wheel will change the pitch of the sample.
The Kurz is pretty unique in that you can change this assignment and use the pitch bend to control anything you like, but by default it is set to control the pitch.
Doing a hard reset will return the piano program to it's normal state, where the pitch wheel will change the pitch of the sample.
#5 Guest_Matches_*
Posted 27 February 2003 - 11:35 AM
Thank you again, Puppeteer!
Putting the pitch-bend on the program editor common page to 0 ct. did stop the the disturbing pitch changes.
Unfortenatly I see on the midi util page, that my pitch bend is generating a lot of midi events, even if I don´t touch the keyboard. So I am pretty shure, that my pitch bender has a defekt and doing sequencing gives me a lot of stupid events.
Can I repair the pitch bend by buying another one and install it myself - remember I´m living here in Germany, so thats till now Kurzweil desert - or can it still be some other defekt?
Does anybody know the price of a pitch bend wheel?
Regards Matches
[ February 27, 2003, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Matches ]
Putting the pitch-bend on the program editor common page to 0 ct. did stop the the disturbing pitch changes.
Unfortenatly I see on the midi util page, that my pitch bend is generating a lot of midi events, even if I don´t touch the keyboard. So I am pretty shure, that my pitch bender has a defekt and doing sequencing gives me a lot of stupid events.
Can I repair the pitch bend by buying another one and install it myself - remember I´m living here in Germany, so thats till now Kurzweil desert - or can it still be some other defekt?
Does anybody know the price of a pitch bend wheel?
Regards Matches
[ February 27, 2003, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Matches ]
#6
The Puppeteer
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Posted 27 February 2003 - 02:58 PM
You may be able to simply re-calibrate it yourself. There are a number of recessed screws on the bottom surface of the K2600 underneath the wheels.
I don't know the procedure for adjusting these though, so perhaps talk to your distributor or repair agent.
What pitch bend values do you see in the MIDI Scope window. If they are close together then a calibration will probably solve the problem. If they are jumping all over the place then the pot may be dirty or require replacing.
It may be possible to clean the pot, though you will probably void your warranty. If you machine is still under warranty then you should be able to have this fixed free of charge.
I don't know the procedure for adjusting these though, so perhaps talk to your distributor or repair agent.
What pitch bend values do you see in the MIDI Scope window. If they are close together then a calibration will probably solve the problem. If they are jumping all over the place then the pot may be dirty or require replacing.
It may be possible to clean the pot, though you will probably void your warranty. If you machine is still under warranty then you should be able to have this fixed free of charge.
#7 Guest_Matches_*
Posted 28 February 2003 - 07:09 AM
I have no warranty anymore, the instrument is two years old.
The pitch bends in the MIDI Scope window are really close together, but they keep coming constantly every few milliseconds and one thing is scary, when I pitch bend down my Kurz, he has a latency of half a second till he reaches the end pitch. Sounds a little bit like an unwantet portamento.
So I try to find out tonight, if there is still some screw I can find to change something.
Thanks
Regards Matches
The pitch bends in the MIDI Scope window are really close together, but they keep coming constantly every few milliseconds and one thing is scary, when I pitch bend down my Kurz, he has a latency of half a second till he reaches the end pitch. Sounds a little bit like an unwantet portamento.
So I try to find out tonight, if there is still some screw I can find to change something.
Thanks
Regards Matches
#8 Guest_Matches_*
Posted 28 February 2003 - 11:02 AM
I came home and the first thing I did, was to try out Puppeteers advices. It worked!!! I calibrated the pitch bend and cleaned the pod. I am very, very happy that my problem is gone now.
Puppeteer your the man!
THANK YOU SO MUCH
Regards Matches
Puppeteer your the man!
THANK YOU SO MUCH
Regards Matches
#9
Salieri
Posted 04 February 2004 - 05:53 AM
Hi Puppeteer and Matches. It indeed sounds like Puppeteer IS 'the man'.
I have a very similar problem. I have a K2500X. I did a hard reset which took care of the distortions on all of the notes, but the E above middle C is mis-firing. When you strike and hold the note, there is no sustain, and it often fires a couple of times.
I understand that it could be a little bit of dust under the key, but I don't think that is it. However, When I checked the middle value on the pitch wheel, the numbers were 'popping all over the place' (which I understand it shouldn't). I was told this could affect it and that there should be a middle value of 64.
I disabled the pitch wheel according to your (puppeteer) explanation, but that didn't correct the problem. I would appreciate any thoughts. I am not looking forward to opening it up to check for dust.
I have a very similar problem. I have a K2500X. I did a hard reset which took care of the distortions on all of the notes, but the E above middle C is mis-firing. When you strike and hold the note, there is no sustain, and it often fires a couple of times.
I understand that it could be a little bit of dust under the key, but I don't think that is it. However, When I checked the middle value on the pitch wheel, the numbers were 'popping all over the place' (which I understand it shouldn't). I was told this could affect it and that there should be a middle value of 64.
I disabled the pitch wheel according to your (puppeteer) explanation, but that didn't correct the problem. I would appreciate any thoughts. I am not looking forward to opening it up to check for dust.
#10
saul2600
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Posted 04 February 2004 - 03:21 PM
if it's just the one key, it is almost certianly dust or debris inside the key contact, or a torn key contact. sorry, but... it happens to every keyboard after a while.
Kurzweil KSP-8, ARP 2600, Moog 901A 901B 904, Steiner Synthacon Filter, Doepfer Regelwerk, Korg Trident, Serge Wavemultiplier, STG Soundlabs, Eventide Clockworks H-910, lots of electronics test equipment, and a PC put together from parts - PII .8 GHz, 128MB PC133 RAM . I guess that shows where my priorities lie.
#11
Salieri
Posted 07 February 2004 - 07:31 AM
I am having a hard time finding the key contacts. Do you know someone who sells them, or do I have to get them directly from Kurzweil Systems. I contacted them by phone and email 3 days ago, but have not heard back from them. Also, I saw a tutorial on how to clean or change the contacts on the k2 website for the k2000. Is it a pretty similar procedure? Any advice on doing this? At the same time, I think I need to calibrate the pitch bend. I can tear a computer apart (and put it back together) ... how long do you think this should take? .... thanks...
#12
saul2600
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Posted 09 February 2004 - 08:46 PM
well, disassembling the K2500 will be very different (i'm sure you guessed this), but the key contacts themselves are about the same.
pulling the keyboard out is somewhat tricky when being done for the first time.
start by removing the screws which hold the upper chassis to the lower these come in two flavors: the larger screws along the middle/back of the instrument, as well as the edges which attach to the end caps. and then some screws that attach a long aluminum structure along the center of the keyboard.
you can access these by turning the keyboard onto its face (on some foam! otherwise, you might damage the data wheel!), then finding the long row of empty and filled holes near the center. you can see the aluminum through the empty holes. remove all the screws along that strip of aluminum... when in doubt, just remove all the screws, paying attention to where they came from!
<.....
...>
once you get to the point of being able to pull the key assembly out of the case of the instrument, you should disconnect the ribbon cables that go to the key contact boards (there is NOT much extra room! you may have to lift up the front edge of the keyboard, holding it in place, and disconnect the cables before moving the keyboard.)
now you can lift the whole key assembly out of the case, and place it, upside down (on the keys themselves) wherever you like. you will see two long circuit boards, held with many little silver screws. find the key that is having problems, and remove the screws from the circuit board which involves that key. when you flip that board over, you should see that there are many strips of rubber... remove the one associated with the key. from there, it should be just like the K2000, clean the entire strip with alcohol (might as well), and pay extra attention to the contact associated with the problem key. leave no dust inside the little cups of rubber, and especially none on the black surfaces inside the cups.
then, wipe off the circuit board itself in the area exposed by the removed contact strip with a *clean and dry cloth*. no alcohol on the circuit board. replace the strip, put the circuit board back in, replace the screws, etc... and it should work out just fine.
the pitch wheel is an entirely different matter... and i cannot just now give you specific advice. i believe there are trim adjustments on the circuit board right under the wheels (the wheels should be removed prior to removing the keyboard, anyway... in order to get to the key pressure strips). these are one possible cause for error, but there are others. i'd say, concentrate on the key contact first, since that is a standard repair that you can accomplish probably your first time... especially since you have worked inside computers before. just as with a computer, remember to put everything back where it came from, in the right direction, and not touching anything else... etc...
yes, there are lots of steps i skipped, but, as you can see, this post is already quite long, and i am long overdue for sleep... if you take the necessary precautions (remove the power cord!), i think you can figure the rest out...
get the key done, and report back, then we can tackle the pitch wheel (it may be an easy problem). note, though, that i will not be able to post for a few days (i have a party tommorrow, and a gig the next day), but i will check back as quick as i can.
[ February 10, 2004, 01:53 AM: Message edited by: saul2600 ]
pulling the keyboard out is somewhat tricky when being done for the first time.
start by removing the screws which hold the upper chassis to the lower these come in two flavors: the larger screws along the middle/back of the instrument, as well as the edges which attach to the end caps. and then some screws that attach a long aluminum structure along the center of the keyboard.
you can access these by turning the keyboard onto its face (on some foam! otherwise, you might damage the data wheel!), then finding the long row of empty and filled holes near the center. you can see the aluminum through the empty holes. remove all the screws along that strip of aluminum... when in doubt, just remove all the screws, paying attention to where they came from!
<.....
...>
once you get to the point of being able to pull the key assembly out of the case of the instrument, you should disconnect the ribbon cables that go to the key contact boards (there is NOT much extra room! you may have to lift up the front edge of the keyboard, holding it in place, and disconnect the cables before moving the keyboard.)
now you can lift the whole key assembly out of the case, and place it, upside down (on the keys themselves) wherever you like. you will see two long circuit boards, held with many little silver screws. find the key that is having problems, and remove the screws from the circuit board which involves that key. when you flip that board over, you should see that there are many strips of rubber... remove the one associated with the key. from there, it should be just like the K2000, clean the entire strip with alcohol (might as well), and pay extra attention to the contact associated with the problem key. leave no dust inside the little cups of rubber, and especially none on the black surfaces inside the cups.
then, wipe off the circuit board itself in the area exposed by the removed contact strip with a *clean and dry cloth*. no alcohol on the circuit board. replace the strip, put the circuit board back in, replace the screws, etc... and it should work out just fine.
the pitch wheel is an entirely different matter... and i cannot just now give you specific advice. i believe there are trim adjustments on the circuit board right under the wheels (the wheels should be removed prior to removing the keyboard, anyway... in order to get to the key pressure strips). these are one possible cause for error, but there are others. i'd say, concentrate on the key contact first, since that is a standard repair that you can accomplish probably your first time... especially since you have worked inside computers before. just as with a computer, remember to put everything back where it came from, in the right direction, and not touching anything else... etc...
yes, there are lots of steps i skipped, but, as you can see, this post is already quite long, and i am long overdue for sleep... if you take the necessary precautions (remove the power cord!), i think you can figure the rest out...
get the key done, and report back, then we can tackle the pitch wheel (it may be an easy problem). note, though, that i will not be able to post for a few days (i have a party tommorrow, and a gig the next day), but i will check back as quick as i can.
[ February 10, 2004, 01:53 AM: Message edited by: saul2600 ]
Kurzweil KSP-8, ARP 2600, Moog 901A 901B 904, Steiner Synthacon Filter, Doepfer Regelwerk, Korg Trident, Serge Wavemultiplier, STG Soundlabs, Eventide Clockworks H-910, lots of electronics test equipment, and a PC put together from parts - PII .8 GHz, 128MB PC133 RAM . I guess that shows where my priorities lie.
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